16 Feb 2021 20:34:02
I see that Bundesliga clubs are raiding the English game again for young and/ or emerging talent, so we have already seen Sancho, Bellingham, and Gray move and others like Omar Richards seem destined to move in the near future with Max Aaron's also on there shopping list, I wonder what Bundesliga clubs see in these players that our clubs don't?
16 Feb 2021 23:47:30
I was reading a rumour, that Dortmund are looking to sell 10 players, Sancho and Bellingham Two names mentioned .
17 Feb 2021 08:19:07
I bet it will be at a significant profit though.
17 Feb 2021 11:45:19
Most European teams have been bringing in youth players from other countries for a long time now, the only difference being that for several reasons British players have historically been reluctant to go abroad, at least in the same volume. I don't think it's a case of British clubs not wanting to keep their young players as such, more of a reflection of the ultra competitive nature of development football and players seeking a path to first team football at a good level, many getting to play in European competition early too. I for one think it will benefit the national team in the long run with more well rounded young pro's and exposure to different styles of football.
17 Feb 2021 12:41:24
I understand what you are saying DBS but we don’t seem to be attracting foreign youngsters in the same way European clubs do and the ones that we do attract don’t seem to make it into the first team I think there is a reluctance in this country to play young talent.
17 Feb 2021 13:00:55
It would be nice wouldn’t it if our youngsters could see a clear path to the first team, and therefore resist the lures of top European clubs. If such clubs can facilitate such a system then why can’t we?
Ok Jacob Ramsey is a regular for match day squads now, but it would certainly be nice to see a few more involved, which I feel would give others hope of achieving the same. With 9 players allowed on the bench now surely a few more of those places could be taken up by the likes of Hayden, Chukwuemeka, Philogene Bidace, or Barry for example. These lads need to see they’ve got a future at the club, or we may well lose them, which would be very disappointing.
17 Feb 2021 13:43:09
I think the price we pay for having an extremely competitive league is that its just harder for younger players to find that path to first team football without either going out on loan or moving leagues. Premier League teams (including Villa) certainly do sign younger players from all over Europe, but them finding a path to the first team is tougher almost everywhere precisely because there is just so much competition, both from homegrown talent and foreign, coupled with the fact that most managers and clubs are under so much pressure that they're reluctant to try untested younger players. I agree it would be great to see more given a go, but I don't blame managers for being so risk averse when they're given so little time to experiment and develop talent. Perhaps one day there will be a rule change to mandate x number of academy players in the starting 11, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
17 Feb 2021 14:05:47
The reluctance to play young talent in the English game, is so obvious its unreal, and I think it is a great point, and one that needs addressing ASAP.
Mark, Moose, and myself have been great advocates of that very process, but are constantly told that they are not ready, and that the management will play them when they are ready.
I personally think we have 4 maybe 5 players in our U23s are more than ready for first team exposure.
17 Feb 2021 14:14:44
I think that might be part of the reason DBS but I would argue if you are not prepared to take a risk on young talent then the academy system becomes redundant and therefore why have one? I know in the past certain clubs have just closed down there academy’s as a means of saving money and for me that’s not the road we should be following but if youngsters see little or no opportunity of breaking into the match day squad is it any wonder they move on? At 16/ 17 all I wanted to do was test myself against better players I presume the modern footballer is no different so if Villa don’t start bringing a few through and quickly then I am sure we will lose them after all we have some of the best talent for there age groups not only in the UK but across Europe also.
17 Feb 2021 14:52:11
I don’t think you know if they’re ready or not until they’re given the chance on the big stage.
It’s not like we will be involved in a relegation scrap this season, and realistically we are unlikely to get into Europe, so surely it has to be worth trying some of them, just to see. It would more than likely give some of the senior players a jolt too. There is often a tendency for mid table sides to ‘ease off’, as the season draws to an end, when aspirations for European places and fears of relegation are no longer an issue. Some of our recent performances suggest that is already happening. I think it would keep them on their toes if they realized some of these youngsters were knocking on the door and potentially taking their places in the team for next season .
I would certainly like to see Hayden on the bench for the Leicester game as a possible replacement for Elmo, for if he picks up an injury or struggles with the pace of Harvey Barnes. He did excellently against Sadio Mane in the cup game, and I don’t think he would let anybody down if he was asked to step in on Saturday .
17 Feb 2021 15:05:06
Well said John, agree 100% mate.
17 Feb 2021 15:50:17
Another good point for possibly including a few more youngsters on the bench, especially the more attack minded ones, is that if clubs have done their homework on how we play ie doubling up on Grealish or "we've been found out " as some have suggested. An unknown random X factor player being brought on, would throw the opposition's game plan and may just give us that spark needed to change a game.
On the other hand it could also go t##s up but if you never try you never know.
If just a few make it, it could save a fortune in transfers and may give us the extra financial clout to sign just that one top notch marquee signing that could make all the difference to how we progress.
17 Feb 2021 15:54:08
I don't disagree with the theory behind playing the kids at all and would certainly like to see it so I'm not disagreeing with your points, my point is that the theory and the reality are in direct conflict and in a culture where you're only as good as your last few games, I don't see many managers in a position to take that risk. The development model and expectation of most top clubs is to aim for one or two to break into the first team every season or two, with some being loaned out and a few being sold while the rest are released - once in a blue moon you might have a Man Utd generation. Obviously circumstances and club aspirations/ budgets dictate that risk appetite to a degree, but I don't see a manager sacrificing finishing 8th in the prem to play a load of kids, finish 15th and then have fans and media then passing judgement on his/ her poor managerial record.
17 Feb 2021 16:27:12
A lot would depend on the remit given by the owners DBS. Success is obviously a priority but they have been very vocal about making Villa self sustaining in the long run. I feel the appointments of the likes of Lange and Harrison et al certainly gives a clue to the way they're going. But as you say, with the premier league money on offer its difficult to get the balance right. If our European push suddenly comes apart and we're technically safe from relegation I think a lot more of the youth will be given some exposure in what is, for once, a settled, competent side.
17 Feb 2021 16:53:54
DBS, If a manager lives with that constant fear of shall I shan`t I, then they are in the wrong business.
Live by it, die by it, that`s life.
17 Feb 2021 17:31:42
I agree Moose I think the intent of our owners is for us to become self sufficient and as you say that’s why Lange and Harrison have been employed by the club, the model where by premier league position is the main driver and becomes the be all and end all only works when the owners have bottomless pits of money which they are prepared to invest in the club which is fine while it lasts, but when they decide to stop investing a la Randy Lerner what happens then?
17 Feb 2021 17:54:57
We get Tactics Tim or Remi Garde as manager? 🤔ðŸ˜.
17 Feb 2021 18:22:27
And the result was 😩😩😩.
17 Feb 2021 18:16:24
That’s the problem John, I fear the mentality has changed drastically over the years. In their first pay cheque they can buy a 5 figure car, 99% of players have never known hard graft or any form of graft at that. Everything that kept youth players grounded and hungry is now banned.
How many fans clamoured for Hepburn-Murphy to be played? We saw it first hand on here. You’d bet your house on the fact some hadn’t even seen him play yet we’re claiming he was the best thing since sliced bread. A couple of failed loans, and where is he now? Pathos FC, most likely because it’s a party destination, but that doesn’t matter, because he’s still got the car and the life to show his Instagram followers.
Over the last few years you could see in the youth team who was ready and who wasn’t, because for a time the games were free on YouTube or AVTV. One who I believe without injury, would of been a success was Jordan Lyden, unfortunately he did suffer badly with injuries and is now rebuilding at Swindon.
Not every player will make it, and when they don’t it’s usually down to two things, ability or attitude. The jump between youth/ ressies and pro football is as big as its ever been. Pressure to perform now and hit the ground running, is massive, but we’ve seen in Ramsey that if their good enough, they’ll get the chance, and if they take that chance and perform, they’ll be kept around and given opportunities.
17 Feb 2021 18:44:51
Villadave - I don't disagree with that principal in theory I would like to see the same outcome as you, I'm just making the point that we don't live in that ideal world where managers (generally speaking) can take the risk to think that long term. The fact that this conversation is taking place would suggest that the reality doesn't match the theory though.
17 Feb 2021 18:45:06
Usually 3 points to the opposition and an arse tweet or foreign shisha party 😂😂😂.
17 Feb 2021 19:40:30
Then DBS our chances of competing with the big boys will be dependent on us keeping our rich owners and there willingness to continually invest big money I am not sure that’s a recipe for success particularly in the current environment either in the short or long term.
17 Feb 2021 20:06:09
DBS, you make some great points mate, and you are right the reality doesn't match the theory most of the time.
My point is similar in some ways, because if managers don`t take chances and experiment, they can also fail, and get ridiculed for not trying something different.
Its that damned if you do, and damned if you don`t scenario mate.
17 Feb 2021 20:42:23
Yeah I agree Villadave and certainly would prefer things to be closer to your way of thinking, the trouble is these days there are just very few owners/ fans/ pundits that are willing to give the Manager that time to see through the development and realise the benefits of giving the kids a season or two to develop in the way we'd like to see. unless rules get proposed as mentioned earlier.
VillaJohn - I'm not saying any of this is how it should be or my preference, just commenting on what I perceive the current state of play to be.
If we produce 1/ 2 top pro's every season or two and sell and handfull to 'lower teams' every season or two for decent money, that's probably as sustainable as we can realistically aim for right now. in my opinion anyway.
17 Feb 2021 21:13:19
You are probably right DBS I would just like to see a few more of the kids other than Ramsey appearing at least on the bench every now and again.
17 Feb 2021 21:16:16
Yes true DBS, and us Villa fans rate very high in the fickle stakes.
17 Feb 2021 22:20:55
I think to have gotten that push now they probably needed to pick up at least one result in the new format JPT, getting nothing probably didn't help the cause even though the Liverpool performance got some recognition.
I'm sure if games do become dead rubbers that we'll see some movement on that front. Europe may not be an expected reality but the games in hand still gets us there so I don't see us straying that far from the current squad unless hit with injuries.